https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/08/0 ... ed-flames/

I've never associated Hawaii and wildfires, but that's just me. People were jumping into the ocean to avoid the heat and flames.

It looks like Front Street in Lahaina is getting decimated. This is tragic. I hope everyone is safe.

I have always thought of the island as lush, clearly not the case.Best wishes to the fire fighters and people.

readytotaxi wrote:

I have always thought of the island as lush, clearly not the case.Best wishes to the fire fighters and people.

I'm guessing that they have received much less rainfall than usual especially now as it is the wet season.

The fires are being fueled by a hurricane in the Pacific.
https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news ... aui-hawaii

flybaurlax wrote:

It looks like Front Street in Lahaina is getting decimated. This is tragic. I hope everyone is safe.

Not everyone was safe - at least six were killed

https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildf ... 98263720db

ER757 wrote:

flybaurlax wrote:

It looks like Front Street in Lahaina is getting decimated. This is tragic. I hope everyone is safe.

Not everyone was safe - at least six were killed

https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildf ... 98263720db

Truly tragic. It looked like it went through the town incredibly fast.

[threeid][/threeid]

readytotaxi wrote:

I have always thought of the island as lush, clearly not the case.Best wishes to the fire fighters and people.

The leeward side of an island is generally drier. Lahaina is much drier than the side where Hana is. It was never lush in Lahaina, but these fires are not normal either even for the dry side of Maui. The resorts and main tourism are situated on this side of the island as the weather is drier. It is horrible to see what has happened to this beautiful town. Human caused climate change is devastating places around the world.

History of wildfires in Hawaii:

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA ... -web-entry

Truly tragic, many of the historic buildings in Lahina are destroyed. Very sad. It will take a very long time to recover. One of the most beautiful places in the world

readytotaxi wrote:

I have always thought of the island as lush, clearly not the case.Best wishes to the fire fighters and people.

That’s the reason many resorts are located on the west side of Maui including the one I stayed at during my first visit to Hawaii, the Hyatt Regency Maui. Many days of dry, sunny conditions make tourists happy and more likely to come back. That’s also what led to the unfortunate destruction of Lahaina. I went to the outlet store in Lahaina during my visit. I also went to the Old Lahaina Luau which I believe has also been destroyed unless someone can tell me otherwise. Food was okay, the show was great. It’s so sad to see that cool, laidback town I visited almost five years ago (October 2018) turned into ash and rubble. I just got an update while typing this that the death toll has risen to 36 in Lahaina. Absolutely heartbreaking.

The destruction is absolutely devastating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy4S2JFMOjs


The winds are just incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_8hrztc_CU


Just no good warnings for anyone. I wonder if the winds hit powerlines, as has happened in CA before. 60 MPH and dry tinderbox.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-did-ma ... -wildfire/

AP reporting at least 36 deaths - just awful

https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildf ... d7f10faa94

Maui wildfires live updates - ABC News

https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/ ... =102142125

Chaos at Maui's main airport as hundreds try to leave

Hundreds of people spent the night at the Kahului Airport on Maui, after local authorities asked everyone who does not need to be on the island to leave amid raging wildfires.

Many raced to the airport on Wednesday only to find out that their flights had been canceled or delayed. So, they slept there on the ground, on baggage carts and on X-ray machines -- whatever they could find that was relatively comfortable.

Some people told ABC News that they are hoping to fly out on Thursday. Others said they were informed by airlines that they won’t be able to get on flights until the weekend.

One mother told ABC News that she has rented a car that she will sleep in with her two young children for the next two days. But that, she said with a tear in her eye, is nothing compared to losing your house or the life of a loved one.

What does this mean for Maui residences & tourism? It seems the core populaces took a direct hit from the flames.

Edit: Did the town of Kahului generally become unscathed from the fires?

KGET News - Weatherman speaks to friend in Maui, who worked in Lahaina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0teS3Si_UY

Juan Browne Report on the Lahaina Wildfire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e3DVC07L-U

https://www.mauicounty.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx

ABC News: 53 Confirmed Dead

https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/ ... =102142125

Full Maui Press Conference with local, state, county, and Federal Officials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dd498TcYE

I understand the strong winds fanned the flames but I was wondering about the construction materials of the majority of homes. Is it mostly wood and some brick or 50-50? Had it been dry for a long while like Portugal?

Unfortunately it’s going to become more frequent every year

Satellite images show what Lahaina looked like before and after deadly fires

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/video/202 ... dly-fires/

DIRECTFLT wrote:

https://www.mauicounty.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx

ABC News: 53 Confirmed Dead

https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/ ... =102142125

Unfortunately I think the final number will be even higher. So sad.....

phatfarmlines wrote:

What does this mean for Maui residences & tourism? It seems the core populaces took a direct hit from the flames.

Edit: Did the town of Kahului generally become unscathed from the fires?

Most of the other towns escaped unscathed but there is still a great risk.

For residents, it means good high paying jobs coming available for the next two to fives years as money from insurance, investors (large and small), and donations flow in to help with clean up and rebuilding.

But before that it will be very hard for the next year for the local population, especially those that lost everything of course, but also a lot of jobs just went up in smoke with the businesses that burned down and the loss of people who spend at those businesses.

And then after the rebuild, it will actually be a nicer better area for tourists to spend money etc. But for locals it will be harder to afford or find affordable housing.

I posted this in another thread not realizing it wasn't this thread:
This will result in a "boom/bust" for locals in the coming months. Employment, good, well paying employment, is limited in Lahaina. But money will flow in, both from insurance but also investors (large and small) who see an opportunity, as well as donations. And the town will be rebuilt and during the next two to five years there will be a lot of work and jobs as this all goes on.

Of course after, there won't be any/as many places that will be affordable to the local population. So we'll what happens then.

For now this is terribly sad and for many who lived in Lahaina horrific and the next few months will be a struggle for all of them. We tourists just leave or delay our trips or don't come. They are there and living this.

Tugg

50 mile an hour winds arent too bad. It's a shame the USA with a military consisting of thousands of aircraft can't muster a few hundred aircraft with advanced fire fighting capability.

Fire fighting helicopters in California can't fly to Hawaii.

Helicopters with external buckets can't handle strong wings.

DC-10 style water bombing aircraft don't have sensors to operate in such poor conditions.

A large military tilt rotor fleet that can also do water bombing would save dozens of lives and billions in damage. Such an aircraft would be equipped for night time nap of the earth flying for its military role. These sensors would allow it to fly in conditions seen in Maui.

If the US military operated large tilt rotors there probably would be dozens permanently based in Hawaii for Pacific operstions. Simply roll on the fire fighting tanks into the cargo bay. 20,000 litres dropped every 10 minutes. Sucking up water from the nearby ocean with a long hose. Millions of litres dropped every hour from a couple dozen aircraft.

It doesn't take much water to protect the buildings. The fire doesn't have to be put out only the area near the houses has to remain wet to prevent ignition. This is a much smaller area.

Sounds like the state of Hawaii did not prioritize wildfire response. It is surprising as this region has had wildfires in the past.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/us/hawai ... index.html

Mick Fleetwood's place

RJMAZ wrote:

50 mile an hour winds arent too bad. It's a shame the USA with a military consisting of thousands of aircraft can't muster a few hundred aircraft with advanced fire fighting capability.

Fire fighting helicopters in California can't fly to Hawaii.

Helicopters with external buckets can't handle strong wings.

DC-10 style water bombing aircraft don't have sensors to operate in such poor conditions.

A large military tilt rotor fleet that can also do water bombing would save dozens of lives and billions in damage. Such an aircraft would be equipped for night time nap of the earth flying for its military role. These sensors would allow it to fly in conditions seen in Maui.

If the US military operated large tilt rotors there probably would be dozens permanently based in Hawaii for Pacific operstions. Simply roll on the fire fighting tanks into the cargo bay. 20,000 litres dropped every 10 minutes. Sucking up water from the nearby ocean with a long hose. Millions of litres dropped every hour from a couple dozen aircraft.

It doesn't take much water to protect the buildings. The fire doesn't have to be put out only the area near the houses has to remain wet to prevent ignition. This is a much smaller area.

In the opinion of pilot Juan Browne, it would not have been safe for even fixed wing aircraft to fly, even if they had had them.
https://youtu.be/-e3DVC07L-U

DIRECTFLT wrote:

In the opinion of pilot Juan Browne, it would not have been safe for even fixed wing aircraft to fly, even if they had had them.
https://youtu.be/-e3DVC07L-U

100% False. We had footage from the air of the fires burning.

C-130 operate in the middle east with sand going through the engines. Embers and smoke will do nothing. Worse case engine maintenance might increase.

The correct wording would be: "It is not safe for twin engine passenger aircraft that have been converted to drop water"

For a large military tilt rotor with terrain following systems and helmet mounted displays it would have been a cakewalk. The fly by wire systems would have it hovering nicely while it sucked up ocean water despite 50 knot gusts.

There is no excuse. The military pilots have the skills to fly at low altitude. Water bombing would only require a bit of additional training. Operating in adverse weather such as Maui would provide excellent experience that would become very useful for the military pilots. With 400 V-22 aircraft now in service surely they could have a roll on water bombing system. 5,000 litres dropped from the V-22 would be great. A tilt rotor being able to slow down to below 100 knots will allow very accurate drops.

Tilt rotors are the best option as they can rapidly fill up from the ocean or nearby lakes. A C-130 system requires it to land and refill so the water dropped per hour would be much lower. A tilt rotor the size of the C-130 would save millions of lives when it comes to humanitarian relief, natural disaster response and fire fighting capability.

Hawaii News Now

Residents and visitors of West Maui are being allowed to access Lahaina and Maalaea today. Safety measures are in place to keep people and property safe because conditions there are still extremely hazardous. Curfews are in effect 10pm-6am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHtQdFKSsXw

RJMAZ wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

In the opinion of pilot Juan Browne, it would not have been safe for even fixed wing aircraft to fly, even if they had had them.
https://youtu.be/-e3DVC07L-U

100% False. We had footage from the air of the fires burning.

C-130 operate in the middle east with sand going through the engines. Embers and smoke will do nothing. Worse case engine maintenance might increase.

The correct wording would be: "It is not safe for twin engine passenger aircraft that have been converted to drop water"

For a large military tilt rotor with terrain following systems and helmet mounted displays it would have been a cakewalk. The fly by wire systems would have it hovering nicely while it sucked up ocean water despite 50 knot gusts.

There is no excuse. The military pilots have the skills to fly at low altitude. Water bombing would only require a bit of additional training. Operating in adverse weather such as Maui would provide excellent experience that would become very useful for the military pilots. With 400 V-22 aircraft now in service surely they could have a roll on water bombing system. 5,000 litres dropped from the V-22 would be great. A tilt rotor being able to slow down to below 100 knots will allow very accurate drops.

Tilt rotors are the best option as they can rapidly fill up from the ocean or nearby lakes. A C-130 system requires it to land and refill so the water dropped per hour would be much lower. A tilt rotor the size of the C-130 would save millions of lives when it comes to humanitarian relief, natural disaster response and fire fighting capability.

So the US Military should be tasked with standby firefighting services for all of the US, going forward??

I find it fortunate Hawaii and Maui has Hawaiian big jet wide bodies to facilitate inter-island transit at this time as the Islands strive to return to a sense of normalcy for the residents displace away from Maui throughout the other islands.

It may be normal for some residents to actually have to commute to work or live elsewhere temporarily as the rebuilding process is underway.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

So the US Military should be tasked with standby firefighting services for all of the US, going forward??

100%. The V-22, Chinook and C-130 fleets should all have modular firefighting systems that can roll into the cargo bay. So within an hour the systems are installed and they are in the air. Any point in the USA can have water dropping within hours. The US military could drop billions of litres of water in a single day.

The US military should also provide aid in hurricane and flood emergencies. Real life emergencies provide excellent training for war. Instead of flying hours of training drills this would actually be saving lives and reducing the damage bill.

A training drill they organise say a dozen aircraft. A huge fire such as this would be a much better replication of war. There would be no maximum limit of aircraft. Everything that is available takes off. The same messages get sent out for everyone to.come in. Much better than an elephant walk.it would not surprise me if they could have 1,000+ us military aircraft over the fire. Global hawk drones above. Inflight refueling tankers. It would be perfect practice for an invasion of Taiwan.

Does anyone know how many Chinook, V-22 and C-130 are in Hawaii on any given day? Surely it is over 100 aircraft.

Lahaina fires update 9 p.m. HST

https://www.mauicounty.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?aid=12682

Firefighters continue working to extinguish flare-ups and contain fires in Lahaina, Pulehu/Kihei and Upcountry Maui.

The number of fatalities is at 80.

A Ka’anapali fire reported above Puukolii at 6:10 p.m. Friday was reported to be 100 percent contained before 8:30 p.m. The fire is in the area where a county fueling station was positioned Friday to distribute an estimated 3,000 gallons of gas and 500 gallons of diesel for an estimated 400 vehicles that were lined up before the operation began. No fuel will be distributed Saturday.

Police are restricting access into West Maui through both Ma’alaea and Waihe’e. Honoapiilani Highway is open for vehicles leaving Lahaina. The burned historic Lahaina town area remains barricaded, with people warned to stay out of the area due to hazards including toxic particles from smoldering areas. Wearing a mask and gloves is advised.