Welcome to the Spain Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the locked 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468631

Wondering if IB will resume PVG and NRT now that Asia is really opening.

Also the big question of if the IB/UX fusion will happen or not. I suspect it might be advantageous to wait until after after some general elections that have to occur before November.

LupineChemist wrote:

Wondering if IB will resume PVG and NRT now that Asia is really opening.

Also the big question of if the IB/UX fusion will happen or not. I suspect it might be advantageous to wait until after after some general elections that have to occur before November.

I don’t see IB going anywhere in Asia as long as Russia is closed. I read somewhere that they weren’t planning in resuming PVG/NRT in the short/medium term.

Air Europa is launching BCN-TFN/ACE both 2 weeky for S23.

aviator2000 wrote:

LupineChemist wrote:

Wondering if IB will resume PVG and NRT now that Asia is really opening.

Also the big question of if the IB/UX fusion will happen or not. I suspect it might be advantageous to wait until after after some general elections that have to occur before November.

I don’t see IB going anywhere in Asia as long as Russia is closed. I read somewhere that they weren’t planning in resuming PVG/NRT in the short/medium term.

PVG is only 5% further avoiding Russia

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MAD-PVG,+MAD-GYD-PVG

Honestly thought it would be worse.

NRT works out to be about 12% further, but probably a much bigger issue when it's such a long flight already.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MAD-NRT,+MAD-GYD-ICN-NRT

A nice article about Binter here :

Binter flies to the European market

https://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/2 ... o.amp.html

They have built up a nice network and will be interesting to see what other seasonal routes they develop .

OA260 wrote:

A nice article about Binter here :

Binter flies to the European market

https://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/2 ... o.amp.html

They have built up a nice network and will be interesting to see what other seasonal routes they develop .

Interesting article. I always wondered where the demand came from on the LPA-PMI flight. I would have never guessed the answer was for hotel industry directives to move between bases.

I hope Binter starts to Madrid. Massive demand, they are on the Iberia Plus program and waaaay better than Iberia Express.

Air Europa has retired today it’s second to last Embraer, with only 1 remaining in the fleet.

Once it has been retired, the airline will only operate with B737/B787

aviator2000 wrote:

Air Europa has retired today it’s second to last Embraer, with only 1 remaining in the fleet.

Once it has been retired, the airline will only operate with B737/B787

Was this a COVID era fleet rationalization decision?

LupineChemist wrote:

I hope Binter starts to Madrid. Massive demand, they are on the Iberia Plus program and waaaay better than Iberia Express.

Highly unlikely. They seem to be focusing on routes without competition and charging pax a lot more than alternatives. They wouldn't be able to compete with IB, UX and FR on the market.

filipair wrote:

aviator2000 wrote:

Air Europa has retired today it’s second to last Embraer, with only 1 remaining in the fleet.

Once it has been retired, the airline will only operate with B737/B787

Was this a COVID era fleet rationalization decision?

More a fleet-simplification exercise. They now only operate B787 and B737 aircraft (+1 Embraer), whereas not so long ago they operated B737, B787, A330, E195 and ATR72s at the same time.

LupineChemist wrote:

I hope Binter starts to Madrid. Massive demand, they are on the Iberia Plus program and waaaay better than Iberia Express.

Id love to see the NT jets on MAD but probably unlikely unless they operate with a IB codeshare on their behalf.

Korean Air to add an extra weekly flight on the ICN-BCN route, bringing the total Barcelona-Seoul frequency to 7/week (double daily on Saturdays)

When will Vueling start flights to Saudi Arabia ? The tourism market (increasingly both ways) is large enough to start flights ! Saudia flights to Barcelona are a good start but a low fare airline would surely stimulate more traffic

AsoRock wrote:

When will Vueling start flights to Saudi Arabia ? The tourism market (increasingly both ways) is large enough to start flights ! Saudia flights to Barcelona are a good start but a low fare airline would surely stimulate more traffic

I don't think it's as nuts as it seems at first, but I'd think they're definitely going to want to watch Wizz a bit more to see how European LCC works in Arabia. And even then will almost certainly not operate from Spain and probably not a Spanish AOC which would make them outside the scope of the thread.

Assuming the European LCC model works in Arabia... why would Vueling not use a Spanish AOC for flights between Spain and Saudi Arabia ?

They would likely do what Wizz is doing and create a local AOC in order to fly to other countries as well.

https://www.preferente.com/noticias-de- ... 24095.html

Reporting indicates the approval for merger between IB and UX is imminent.

Iberia releases its new onboard security video with an emphasis on highlighting different parts of Spain and talents of its people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTPUT4iSVws&t=138s

LupineChemist wrote:

They would likely do what Wizz is doing and create a local AOC in order to fly to other countries as well.

In many cases a Spanish AOC = an EU AOC so Vueling wouldn't need another AOC to operate from another EU country to Saudi Arabia. Wizz Air flies/will fly to Saudi Arabia from several EU markets in which they don't have AOCs - in fact, they use their Malta AOC to operate Italy-Saudi Arabia or Austria-Saudi Arabia, without even operating Malta-Saudi Arabia!

himarhernandez wrote:

Iberia releases its new onboard security video with an emphasis on highlighting different parts of Spain and talents of its people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTPUT4iSVws&t=138s

I can see the idea is good, but sadly the finished product is not.
Some scenes that feel long with repeated movements that are presumably to highlight the person’s prowess at whatever they do. The my could have found a better place for the luggage stowing in overheads bins than the rock shown. Some strange scene with someone painting graffiti in the setting of city of arts and sciences in Valencia for the non-smoking warning.
The English dubbing comes across as forced and unnatural. All in all a bad production, unfortunately.

TS811 wrote:

LupineChemist wrote:

They would likely do what Wizz is doing and create a local AOC in order to fly to other countries as well.

In many cases a Spanish AOC = an EU AOC so Vueling wouldn't need another AOC to operate from another EU country to Saudi Arabia. Wizz Air flies/will fly to Saudi Arabia from several EU markets in which they don't have AOCs - in fact, they use their Malta AOC to operate Italy-Saudi Arabia or Austria-Saudi Arabia, without even operating Malta-Saudi Arabia!

I was more thinking of what they are doing from UAE as it allows them to fly to non-EU countries

LupineChemist wrote:

TS811 wrote:

LupineChemist wrote:

They would likely do what Wizz is doing and create a local AOC in order to fly to other countries as well.

In many cases a Spanish AOC = an EU AOC so Vueling wouldn't need another AOC to operate from another EU country to Saudi Arabia. Wizz Air flies/will fly to Saudi Arabia from several EU markets in which they don't have AOCs - in fact, they use their Malta AOC to operate Italy-Saudi Arabia or Austria-Saudi Arabia, without even operating Malta-Saudi Arabia!

I was more thinking of what they are doing from UAE as it allows them to fly to non-EU countries

I doubt VY would be interested in launching a UAE venture... They are not WizzAir and they don't just open up bases averywhere. They are centred in Spain, Italy and France, and that's about it.

Binter announced 2 new routes today:

Las Palmas LPA - Ibiza IBZ
Las Palmas LPA - Granada GRX

Korean Air returns to Madrid:

Seoul Incheon – Madrid eff 25APR23 3 weekly 787-9

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230119-keeu

Summa767 wrote:

himarhernandez wrote:

Iberia releases its new onboard security video with an emphasis on highlighting different parts of Spain and talents of its people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTPUT4iSVws&t=138s

I can see the idea is good, but sadly the finished product is not.
Some scenes that feel long with repeated movements that are presumably to highlight the person’s prowess at whatever they do. The my could have found a better place for the luggage stowing in overheads bins than the rock shown. Some strange scene with someone painting graffiti in the setting of city of arts and sciences in Valencia for the non-smoking warning.
The English dubbing comes across as forced and unnatural. All in all a bad production, unfortunately.

Having seen it on board now I can say that while I generally agree with the criticism about not really getting to the point is true but while I thought the audio dubbing was really bad on the youtube version, it does feel a lot better in the cabin with the cabin speakers.

https://www.preferente.com/noticias-de- ... 24348.html

Mask mandate looking to be dropped in February. (Source article in Spanish)

Avianca is adding a 2nd daily flight on BOG-BCN route for S23.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618013030763368449?s=20&t=i5dWzH94MX71Z2Eju2gmfw

nascar1 wrote:

Avianca is adding a 2nd daily flight on BOG-BCN route for S23.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618013030763368449?s=20&t=i5dWzH94MX71Z2Eju2gmfw

It's incredible how fast Avianca has grown in Barcelona.

nascar1 wrote:

Avianca is adding a 2nd daily flight on BOG-BCN route for S23.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618013030763368449?s=20&t=i5dWzH94MX71Z2Eju2gmfw

AV is also increasing BOG-MAD at the same time -in a similar way:
So that’s an additional daily MAD flight and an additional daily BCN flight, both dailies from 12 June until 31 August- reducing to one additional frequency 4 times a week to MAD and 3 a week to BCN for September. October would revert back to current levels (though I would expect increases for winter announced later -we saw seasonal increases in Dec 22 and this month :Jan 23).

So AV will have 7 daily frequencies between Colombia and Spain for the peak of the summer season.
With IB, UX and Plus Ultra taking the total to up to 85 weekly flights in each direction.

LEVEL is adding more flights from june 2023 out of BCN.

- SCL: resumes during S23 with 3 weekly, before that was supposed to be seasonal.
- JFK: from 6 weekly to daily.
- BOS: from 3 to 4 weekly.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618223757121949701?s=20&t=G2nfWPGe9rEXlw0SDJM60g

It looks like Iberia (or IAG?) is interested in TAP - Link only in Spanish sorry!

https://www.eleconomista.es/economia/no ... acion.html

nascar1 wrote:

LEVEL is adding more flights from june 2023 out of BCN.

- SCL: resumes during S23 with 3 weekly, before that was supposed to be seasonal.
- JFK: from 6 weekly to daily.
- BOS: from 3 to 4 weekly.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618223757121949701?s=20&t=G2nfWPGe9rEXlw0SDJM60g

Other routes:

EZE goes from daily to 6x w during March, April, September and October 2023; from 6x to 5x w during May, June, July and August 2023

SFO returns with 4x w

LAX 4x w

Kuwait Airways plans to launch for S23 Kuwait City - Barcelona. It wil be the 3rd destination in Spain.

I’ve always wondered what does Malaga (AGP) have that it manages to attract Gulf Carriers before other airports in Spain. Kuwait Airways launched flights to Malaga before it started Madrid last year and Barcelona now.

Same for Gulf Air, which has flights between Bahrain and Malaga but doesn’t fly to either Madrid or Barcelona. Could anyone provide any insight on this? Thanks!

Arabs from the Gulf seem to love Marbella

aviator2000 wrote:

I’ve always wondered what does Malaga (AGP) have that it manages to attract Gulf Carriers before other airports in Spain. Kuwait Airways launched flights to Malaga before it started Madrid last year and Barcelona now.

Same for Gulf Air, which has flights between Bahrain and Malaga but doesn’t fly to either Madrid or Barcelona. Could anyone provide any insight on this? Thanks!

Hi, KAC has been operating AGP since the 70's using B707-B727-B747-B767 that said Malaga & Marbella are a key holiday destination for GCC citizens moreover tens of thousands of Kuwaitis are real estate owners in Malaga & Marbella, I hope I've answered your question.

aviator2000 wrote:

I’ve always wondered what does Malaga (AGP) have that it manages to attract Gulf Carriers before other airports in Spain. Kuwait Airways launched flights to Malaga before it started Madrid last year and Barcelona now.

Same for Gulf Air, which has flights between Bahrain and Malaga but doesn’t fly to either Madrid or Barcelona. Could anyone provide any insight on this? Thanks!

For over 7 centuries most of Spain used to be part of the Arab world, being called Al-Andalus. The last of the moors were expelled by the Catholic Kings Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492. There must be some sort of affinity that wealthy Arabs find like-home-yet-in-Europe in today's Andalucia, in particular the posh beach towns such as Marbella. They certainly have poured a lot of money there.

dcajet wrote:

aviator2000 wrote:

I’ve always wondered what does Malaga (AGP) have that it manages to attract Gulf Carriers before other airports in Spain. Kuwait Airways launched flights to Malaga before it started Madrid last year and Barcelona now.

Same for Gulf Air, which has flights between Bahrain and Malaga but doesn’t fly to either Madrid or Barcelona. Could anyone provide any insight on this? Thanks!

For over 7 centuries most of Spain used to be part of the Arab world, being called Al-Andalus. The last of the moors were expelled by the Catholic Kings Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492. There must be some sort of affinity that wealthy Arabs find like-home-yet-in-Europe in today's Andalucia, in particular the posh beach towns such as Marbella. They certainly have poured a lot of money there.

The tourism part makes sense but I'm not exactly sure the Al-Andalus past has much to do with it.

BTW, Air Europa has retired today its last Embraer, so from today AE is an all-Boeing operator if I'm not mistaken. Link only in Spanish:

https://twitter.com/novedadesaereas/sta ... 1848957952

Iberia has suffered an IT meltdown.
Hearing reports of manual check in and other processes (including access to lounges). Generalised delays:
https://twitter.com/iberia_en/status/16 ... U9ZBOIsdJw

aviator2000 wrote:

BTW, Air Europa has retired today its last Embraer, so from today AE is an all-Boeing operator if I'm not mistaken. Link only in Spanish:

https://twitter.com/novedadesaereas/sta ... 1848957952

Partially correct yes. UX Express has a single ATR72 operating intra islands in the Balearics. UX itself is all Boeing, and now UX Express gets closer to be the same, an only B737 operator.

a350lover wrote:

aviator2000 wrote:

BTW, Air Europa has retired today its last Embraer, so from today AE is an all-Boeing operator if I'm not mistaken. Link only in Spanish:

https://twitter.com/novedadesaereas/sta ... 1848957952

Partially correct yes. UX Express has a single ATR72 operating intra islands in the Balearics. UX itself is all Boeing, and now UX Express gets closer to be the same, an only B737 operator.

What's the difference between UX and UX Express? Is it some cost-cutting measure similar to IB express?

Summa767 wrote:

Iberia has suffered an IT meltdown.
Hearing reports of manual check in and other processes (including access to lounges). Generalised delays:
https://twitter.com/iberia_en/status/16 ... U9ZBOIsdJw

In their website now: https://www.iberia.com/us/latest-update-of-our-flights/

Their website (it was pretty bad before the meltdown) its also erroring out when trying to make a reservation or access current bookings.

Can someone tell IB to get a better IT team? Their site is in desperate need of a fix.

cybergus wrote:

Can someone tell IB to get a better IT team? Their site is in desperate need of a fix.

Like IAG GBS in India??

cybergus wrote:

Summa767 wrote:

Iberia has suffered an IT meltdown.
Hearing reports of manual check in and other processes (including access to lounges). Generalised delays:
https://twitter.com/iberia_en/status/16 ... U9ZBOIsdJw

In their website now: https://www.iberia.com/us/latest-update-of-our-flights/

Their website (it was pretty bad before the meltdown) its also erroring out when trying to make a reservation or access current bookings.

Can someone tell IB to get a better IT team? Their site is in desperate need of a fix.

It has to be said that despite not having functioning IT for many hours, the average delay was just one hour. IB staff resorted to manual procedures and free seat allocation in some instances.
Had it been BA (as it has in fact happened) all short haul flights would have been cancelled and half of long haul. No such learned helplessness in this case.

So Iberia has been operating Finnair's HEL-MAD/BCN routes for quite a while now and it looks like they will continue doing so this summer. Does any of you know how long is this expected to last?

Especially now that Finnair has had to cut so many routes, I don't know how it benefits them to pay another airline to operate their flights, whilst they have grounded crew and planes.

aviator2000 wrote:

So Iberia has been operating Finnair's HEL-MAD/BCN routes for quite a while now and it looks like they will continue doing so this summer. Does any of you know how long is this expected to last?

Especially now that Finnair has had to cut so many routes, I don't know how it benefits them to pay another airline to operate their flights, whilst they have grounded crew and planes.

Spain is for AY a remote market. Operating the MAD-HEL-MAD or BCN-HEL-BCN sectors (the same applies to LIS, which is outsourced to Danish Air Transport) with their own metal would require:

1) To operate an “almost empty” HEL-BCN/MAD leaving HEL very early in the morning; or

2) To overnight at MAD/BCN and “loose” two 321s that would only be used in one route.

For them is much easier to have two 321s already in place in the morning rather that the hassle of positioning 2 aircrafts. And now that their Asian network is weaker than ever, the wetlease makes even more sense.

In my view AY will resume BCN/MAD/LIS once they can operate more than one frequency per day. BCN was 3xday before Covid and MAD can easily get 2xday (maybe changing the 321 for a 320). Once they get back to normal, I don’t see why AY could not use their own aircrafts.

Considering that the current Spain-HEL flights are not really good for for connections, I would sign a JV agreement (a la BCN/MAD-LHR with BA) so that Iberia and Finnair could share the operation and their profits. Iberia could operate the MAD-HEL-MAD flight departing MAD at 10:00 and Finnair could operate the inverse route from HEL, offering the pax. a morning and an afternoon flight in both ends.

Does anyone know what the plans for Canaryfly are? Before Covid they had quite a few aircraft and flights between the Canary islands, especially after absorbing the Air Europa fleet and flights. During Covid they didn't fly at all for several months. And now they seem to have only about 3 ATR72 flying, only very few flights and practically no useful connections. And their schedule doesn't seem to change much for the rest of the year.


Gruß, masi1157